Christian Bale Interview The Big Short

This story first appeared in the Dec. xi issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. To receive the magazine, click here to subscribe.

Seventy-vii pages into his 2010 best-seller, The Large Curt: Inside the Doomsday Auto, writer Michael Lewis stops to congratulate readers with a "gold star" for getting this far. After all, the detailed analysis of the financial-manufacture machinations that led to the collapse of the U.S. housing market and the Dandy Recession (and, arguably, the election of President Obama in 2008) is a whirlwind of such headache-inducing terms as collateralized debt obligations and triple-A tranches woven together past the personal stories of the men who foresaw the implosion and made millions. "Nobody wants to read about credit default swaps," jokes Lewis today. "And nobody wants to see a movie near that."

Nobody except Adam McKay, the onetime Saturday Night Live head writer turned director of such unserious movies every bit Anchorman and Stride Brothers, who in March 2014 persuaded Brad Pitt'southward Plan B production company, Regency and Paramount to let him bring the book to the screen. McKay, 47, co-wrote the script (with Charles Randolph), tackling head-on the complexities of the field of study matter and bringing a satirical edge to the textile — a funny, angry, Michael Moore-style piece of advocacy in which the unabridged American fiscal system is the villain, complete with char­acters talking incredulously to the audience and actress Margot Robbie explaining subprime mortgages while sipping champagne nude in a bathtub. With Steve Carell on lath every bit investor Steve Eisman (whose proper name is changed in the moving picture), Christian Bale as neurologist turned hedge fund manager Dr. Michael Burry and Ryan Gosling every bit a composite graphic symbol based on Deutsche Banking concern trader Greg Lippmann, the $28 1000000 motion-picture show came together in Jan (Pitt took a small role as an angel investor, and Marisa Tomei, Melissa Leo, Finn Wittrock and many others round out a deep bandage). In ane of the faster turnaround times for a studio motion picture, The Large Short was ready for its well-received premiere Nov. 12, ahead of a Dec. 11 release and a spot in this season'due south awards race.

While the events of the picture took place nearly a decade ago, the subject area matter has been thrust into the spotlight via the presidential entrada. Hillary Clinton, who has accepted $20 million in campaign contributions and speaking fees from banks and financial institutions, is beating back accusations that, if elected, she might be likewise cozy with the banks that acquired the financial crisis. "Clinton Defends Image of Being Soft on Wall St." read a forepart-page New York Times headline Nov. 22, a mean solar day after the former sec­retary of state was heckled at a rally in Due north Carolina. "I have the toughest, well-nigh comprehensive programs for dealing with Wall Street," she told a crowd. Responded a man with a Bernie Sanders sign: "By taking their money!"

Fittingly, Sanders has received money this entrada season from McKay, one of Hollywood'south almost reliable Democrat donors, who has given millions to candidates and causes — but not to Hillary this flavor. McKay stumped for Obama in 2008, helping the candidate ride outrage over the fiscal plummet and authorities bailout into the White House, only to see the Obama administration pass up to prosecute the architects of the implosion. It's a topic McKay addressed when he joined Lewis, 55; Carell, 53; Bale, 41; and Gosling, 35, for a lively group interview and photo shoot Nov. thirteen.

"We've shown the movie to economists and finance people, and they all say the same thing: Non enough has inverse," says McKay (second from right). He was photographed with (from left) Christian Bale, Lewis, Ryan Gosling and Steve Carell on Nov. 13 at Line 204 Studios in Hollywood.

Obama came into part on the heels of the massive disruption detailed in The Large Short and promised to practice something near information technology. Adam, are you disappointed in him?

MCKAYOh, heck aye. They whiffed on that. They really made a bad call. In that location's this talk in D.C. that if you put these bankers in jail, you're putting the economy in jeopardy. No, you're putting the economy in jeopardy by not putting these bankers in jail considering it means they're going to practice more of it.

The argument was that Obama didn't like the bailout, merely the alternative would have been Armaggedon.

MCKAY Here'south the funny thing: When the paper markets froze, I didn't even know what that meant. Brusque-term business lending had frozen, which means that yous can't become fluoride for water for municipalities. Hospitals can't get medicine. If that had been allowed to stand, we would have had riots in the streets. So there is no question they had to do the bailout, but it's just the weather of the bailout and the fact that we fifty-fifty got there. Obama came in, and he didn't prosecute anyone. His Section of Justice guy [former Attorney General Eric Holder] worked for a law firm [Covington & Burling] that represented a bunch of the big banks. And now he'south back working for that [firm]! And then I thought that was a travesty.

Who should have been prosecuted?

MCKAY This is only me, and keep in mind I directed Step Brothers, but for sure the shell CDO [collateralized debt obligation] companies that those banks set up, I thought that was flagrant fraud. They would create these fake companies over in Bailiwick of jersey and just feed 'em all the tranches [groups of bad loans] that they couldn't sell. That's just flagrantly illegal. I also call back the ratings agencies [did not do] whatsoever due diligence, just taking those fees. Because, you know, they all went public. They have to continue their stock up. Those were actually flagrant.

LEWIS It's breathtaking to me that Goldman Sachs was creating bonds so that they would fail. So that they could bet against them. That's but nuts. The whole point of Goldman Sachs is to put a stamp of blessing so everybody thinks, "Well, they've underwritten [them], they think this is sound." And instead, they're perverting the process. Information technology's pol­lution in the fiscal system. That the people who did that at Goldman Sachs didn't finish up in jail, that amazes me.

"I love playing real characters because you create a mannerism, and the manager might question that, only you've got the evidence," says Bale. "You can simply call him over and conversation with him for a piddling flake and become, 'See, right?'"

Do you think anyone running for president volition do annihilation on this issue? Hillary? Bernie Sanders?

MCKAY Nothing significant, no. I recall Bernie Sanders would, but I don't recollect he'd ever have the Congress to back him; they would block him. It'south actually about Congress, not so much the pre­sident. Y'all could fix this in a week. It'south not hard, like have a clearinghouse for derivatives; you lot can come across what's being traded, where the risk is going. Bring dorsum a new version of Glass-Steagall [the law that separated investment and commercial banks, repealed in the 1990s], have a transaction taxation so iv other things Michael could say, too.

And Trump would make this worse?

MCKAY Uh, well, Steve Carell loves Trump, so I don't desire to cross any lines hither. I don't want to get him upset. (Laughs.)

CARELL I've made no bones about that. (Laughs.)

MCKAY Ryan'southward a [Ben] Carson guy. Carell'due south a Trump guy. Trump. That'south like, you're treating an appendectomy, would it make it better or worse if you just threw a cat on it? (Laughs.) No! That'southward just raw insanity. Would it aid if we prepare 20 firm cats loose in the White Firm? America starts to crumble at that point.

This is a tough subject to make fun of. Why did you want to exercise information technology?

MCKAY What excited me about the volume was the idea that you were taken into this really elaborate, complicated globe through these characters you identified with that were outsiders, that were vulnerable, that idea differently. Information technology was entertaining; information technology was tragic. It was sometimes heartbreaking. And yes, a lilliputian educational. As far as having a political or policy position to it, I never really looked at it that manner.

How much consulting did you do with your real-life subjects?

GOSLING The grapheme I play is loosely based on a real person [Lippmann], but he's likewise the narrator of the pic and the tour guide through this world. It was a claiming because I'1000 trying to play him but at the same time have one foot outside of the movie and be virtually similar a talk bear witness host or something. I wouldn't want someone to play me, unless it was Steve.

CARELL I met with [Eisman]. We had breakfast. I read upwards on him.

"That'south just the way he gives notes," says Gosling of McKay. "Yous take hold of a pocketbook of hamburgers and you lot go to a graveyard."

Other than irresolute his name, was there anything he asked you to alter about him or complaints he had?

CARELL He said he had amend pilus. That was his one comment. He was very, very proud of his hair. He said, "My married woman married me considering of my hair."

BALE Michael [Burry] came to visit the fix a number of times. And he's a fascinating individual. We but talked for, it was similar eight or nine hours straight. I became very fond of him. I love playing real characters because y'all create a mannerism, and the director might question that, but you've got the evidence. You lot can but telephone call him over and chat with him for a fiddling bit and go, "Meet, correct?"

The book and the film both go into detail on the kind of person who bets confronting conventional wisdom or who wagers on bad things happening. Are whatsoever of you that kind of person?

LEWIS No. I'yard very conventional. The only matter that'due south odd about me is where I'g from. I grew up in New Orleans, and the rest of the state feels like an alien place to me.

MCKAY Well, the people that have the short position in Wall Street, they don't wait healthy.

LEWIS It's absolutely true.

MCKAY It actually takes a price on you considering you lot're betting confronting the hope of the time to come. A lot of these guys await hunched over and pale. It's what happened to Dr. Burry.

BALE Aye.

MCKAY Dr. Burry almost had part of his lower intestine removed, he was having such tummy issues. As shortly as he unwound his position [in credit default swaps], all the problems went away. In some means, that'due south the core of the movie, that idea of how difficult it is to step away from the pack and say you're wrong. No one wants to do that.

"It's like a horror movie," says Carell of the boom and bust of the 2008 fiscal crunch. "It's a romp until it's not."

Do yous worry audiences will take a hard fourth dimension rooting for the fiscal plummet of the country?

MCKAY No, what I loved virtually it from the book is how complex it is that you're rooting for these guys. The way the market'southward supposed to work is, if there'southward a bad investment, you brusk it. And then they're kind of doing their job. Then the story expands times ten once they realize they're shorting themselves. They're shorting bodily reality. And so information technology gets scary and very complicated.

How familiar were you all with these issues before signing on?

BALE Familiar to a point.

CARELL We all take personal stories that relate to that time. The minutiae of what went downward, no. Simply when you start peeling away the layers of the fraud and the duplicity, it's incredibly terrifying.

GOSLING [The financial complexities were] all to make y'all feel stupid so that you don't ask questions.

BALE Near businesses do that, don't they? Certainly lawyers with legalese. The movie industry to a degree does information technology as well. You think? Considering it'southward all about protecting your ain —

LEWIS It'south creating a barrier [to the truth].

BALE Protecting your ass.

Have you always tried to read your own deal on a movie? Hopefully your lawyer understands it considering there are just two guys at every studio who do.

MCKAY He's right.

BALE Exactly.

C hristian, how was working with Adam different than other directors you've worked with, similar Christopher Nolan or David O. Russell?

BALE Adam uses a microphone, so he didn't have to actually look at me. "That's crap; exercise it again."

MCKAY Information technology'southward all authentic.

GOSLING Yeah, Adam volition simply talk to you if you bring a bag of hamburgers and y'all get to a graveyard.

That sounds similar a story.

MCKAY It sounds crazier than [it is]. When yous're on the ready, at that place's a crew around you. And I want to have time with the actor. I desire somewhere that'southward quiet. And normally we're hungry. So I get a sack full of hamburgers and I'll expect for a graveyard. Nosotros get and we sit there in a rainy graveyard for two hours, merely talk nearly acting. [In New Orleans,] there are graveyards everywhere. [As well,] I took Christian into a boiler room for three hours and just screamed at him, mostly in High german.

BALE Really helped. I got information technology.

"Why aren't we learning nearly this on the news?" McKay asks of the Wall Street fraud detailed in the film. "Why aren't we learning virtually it through documentaries? Why isn't it discussed in debates? And what are nosotros hearing about instead?"

Yous've a deep bandage of great actors. Got any good stories from the set?

MCKAY Marisa Tomei is a thief. She volition take shit out of your trailer. (Laughs.) Finn Wittrock gets in a lot of fights. Here's i of the funniest ones: Billy Magnussen plays one of the mortgage brokers with Max Greenfield. And he's the sweetest guy. He shows up for like two days, and he's a immature guy, so he's partying downwards in New Orleans. At ane indicate, he wants to practise his laundry, and he sees a agglomeration of laundry in the washing auto on our wardrobe truck. He takes it all out, and it's wet, so he just shoves it in the dryer. And so he puts his clothes in the washing automobile. What he doesn't realize is, these are like $15,000 worth of wardrobe for Carell; these are like Brioni tailor-fabricated.

CARELL And the next 24-hour interval I put on my shirt, and I was similar, "I couldn't take gotten this fat in i twenty-four hours …"

MCKAY He felt so bad.

CARELL Y'all fired him.

MCKAY I did. I fired and sued him.

GOSLING In front of everyone.

MCKAY It was a public firing.

McKay's "qualification for the [directing] task is that he doesn't care what I think," says Lewis.

Since the housing meltdown, real estate prices accept skyrocketed again, peculiarly in New York and Fifty.A. Are we in for more problem?

MCKAY There'southward no question there's an nugget bubble going on across the world. Only the bigger point is nosotros didn't make enough change; the same shenanigans are going on.

What do you lot hope to accomplish with this moving picture? Is change possible?

MCKAY I hope that people hook with these characters. Then peradventure a few conversations beginning. There accept been several presidential debates where they don't fifty-fifty talk about banking concern reform, which is insanity. It'due south a flick; you tin can't really expect it to [crusade] some giant change. Only if it spurred on chat, I would be delighted. From the focus groups, it's pretty astonishing. Nosotros've seen twenty people at a mall argue with each other about the banking organisation.

The flick argues that instead of bankers, poor people and minorities took the blame for the crunch. What practice you hateful by that?

MCKAY You're seeing it now. Rather than talking about merchandise policy or minimum wage, rather than talking about business organisation stimulus, instead what are we mostly talking virtually with the presidential campaigns? Building a wall to keep immigrants out. We had a census non likewise long ago, and it really showed definitively more than immigrants are leaving than coming in. So it's literally a nonissue. But people don't empathise these complex financial structures and instruments. They know something's incorrect, and they become toward what they empathize. You meet the same thing in Greece; there's a rise in the neo-Nazi motion at that place.

Did working on this movie inspire whatever of you to be more agile in the fiscal markets?

BALE God, no.

CARELL Not at all. [My money] is in a mattress. I sleep on information technology every night.

MCKAY I was dumb enough to starting time thinking I could curt things. I was talking to a friend about McDonald's. We were like, McDonald's tin't go along selling this nutrient they're selling. They're going to go downwards! So I called my business manager. I said, "I desire to short McDonald's." And he goes — Lewis knows how funny this is — "I think that's a bad idea. Allow me check with our guys and see how it looks." And I go, "OK. Because I actually like Milkshake Shack." And he goes, "Yes, my guys are long on McDonald's. They say information technology's very stiff. They're in a bunch of common funds. The real estate holdings. They are changing their menu." And since that time, McDonald'south has gone upwardly 25 percentage and Shake Shack's stuck where it was. My guy saved me from that.

Does the U.South. financial organisation demand to autumn into chaos for anything to change?

MCKAY Here'due south the matter: Corruption doesn't piece of work, whether legalized or illegal. Information technology's going to fail. What we're upset about is in that location is no need to accept to go through this. Why don't we pass some basic laws?

LEWIS Y'all see changes in the civilisation. Since the financial crisis, the rela­tionship of the financial sector to the rest of the social club has gotten much more than precarious. Any time it's talked about in Washington, nobody is a friend of the banks. It's when it'south not talked well-nigh it's dangerous because the money then takes over.

Studios often set up screenings with politicos in Washington for movies that raise social issues. Are you trying?

MCKAY They're talking about it. Washington is tricky. Maybe it'll be Trump and Carson. (Laughs.)

Lookout man more roundtables on Close Upwardly With The Hollywood Reporter this flavour on Sundance Tv set, get-go Sunday, Dec. xiii, at 11 a.thou. ET.

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Source: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-features/ryan-gosling-christian-bale-more-844800/

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